(Updated 2/25, Thanks to some recent comments towards me, I have decided to repost this entry.)
The creation of this blog is the direct result of interaction with the people listed here. Full Preterist leaders have NO MERCY towards those who hold their own view, no less those who disagree with them. Everyone is open to attack and, in virtually every case, if the conversation is extended, it becomes personal. There is no way to communicate how many problems Preterism faces – it is like a rebellious youth who refuses to own up to addictions. But the shallowness – and, ultimately, unChristlikeness, are displayed through the comments below. This site has always intended to hold a mirror up to these types of people. To speak in a “language” they can understand. And the accusations toward me are hypocritical to say the least.
At this time, the names are being withheld, because the point can be made without that unnecessary damage. If I were as evil as made out to be, this would never be the case. My goal remains the re-examination of the views, not the destruction of the individuals.
(Matthew 23:28-32) "So you, too, outwardly appear righteous to men, but inwardly you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness. "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you build the tombs of the prophets and adorn the monuments of the righteous, and say, ‘If we had been living in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partners with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’ "So you testify against yourselves, that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets. "Fill up, then, the measure of the guilt of your fathers.
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Ed Hassertt: "Dr Birks, you have shown yourself to be a moron with a lot of letters after his name!" "Are you deliberately being obtuse and idiotic? No verse of scripture can be exegeted in isolation from the rest of scripture, to do so is Gnostic and bordering on satanic! You reject the very nature of scripture itself and demand Dave interpret scripture according to your false view of scripture. Then you lie claiming you agree with using scripture to interpret scripture! How can you, in one sentence demand Dave not use scripture to interpret scripture and then in the next sentence claim we must use scripture to interpret scripture. Either you are being sinfully deceptive or are just too ignorant to have an intelligence conversation on the topic.
Davo: "Your world-vision is so stinted and narrow that your "neighbors" are obviously only in-house."
Jason Bradfield "Dee Dee is an ignorant coward who, like Rod, just loves to destroy people as she sits all high and mighty on her throne, insisting that us little village people dare not approach her."
Sam Frost "Virgil and I had a wonderful phone conversation today. We are pretty much in agreement. As far as Jeff's continued crap, I can't deal with it. But, Jeff Vaughn does not represent Planet Preterist. He is just one ignorant voice. I have to keep that in perspective."
"So, that's the criteria now for being a "jerk;" that we fought with people? In case you haven't noticed Rich, you have a fair number of people that you have fought with. But, we all know it can't be you - you are so smart after all. You make asinine statements and then call people "jerks" when they challenge you. You are incapable of defending your views with scripture, logic or reason. You merely go straight for whining and name-calling."
"If you cannot see that in your proposition of "in the dust of the earth" being a physical location of dead bodies that will be "raised" as not being a physical resurrection by implication, the I guess I see why you resort to the whining and name-calling. "
"I feel that you've arrived at a logically invalid conclusion concerning my logically valid assertion . . .""You keep claiming that you understand my position – it is evident that you don't; you are drawing your assumptive conclusions off your own faulty presuppositions."
"For heaven's sake bro. You're an idiot. Stop whining. Can't you make one single solitary point concerning what they wrote? I'm trying hard to be gentle and inclusive, here but your retardness is very pressing on me...idiot! "
"Your fundamental beliefs seem to be iron-clad and carven in stone! Perhaps that's the difference here...dynamic, fluctuating belief systems vs. a static, calcified one. The question is...on whose side do the Scriptures weigh in on as the ultimate Authority in establishing the veracity of that position?"
"I am not sure if Kurt is interested in any exchange; he likes to shout out what his perception of others is while he is covering his ears going "la la la la." My kids do that sometime too. :)"
"I simply raised that to show by way of example how inconsistent you are in the dogmatic claims you make and how such fly in the face of other conventions – again, just like your nonsense claim "it is not permissible to substitute one scriptural term for a different term than the one used by the author" about "the kingdom", that even Jesus himself by His very words, proves your novel notion wrong."
"Furthermore, like them, you now proceed with the childish baloney..."like he's a little wannabe Sam trying to suck up to his master."What the hell does that have to do with JL calling Sam a pathetic loser, a gnostic, a fool, and every other name he's called the man simply because Sam doesn't agree with his interpretation?"
"It is quite evident therefore that Mr. Stevens, when it becomes convenient, chooses to overlook doctrine for financial gain and does not hesitate to ignore even the most liberal of positions regarding the account of Genesis to make a few extra dollars. This, dear reader is the hypocrisy we are willing to expose within the Preterist movement, and I am hoping that by doing so we will reinforce the open nature of our movement and reclaim the ground lost to dogmatism, hypocrisy and judgmental attitudes."
"The second reason is that his logic and argumentation that he has given in the past to refute the confused and vagueness of Virgil's theology/eschatology, has now become meaningless and to be quite frank, hypocritical."
"If you are posting your complaints on multiple public lists, the members of those lists have the right to comment. If you wanted to keep your discourse private, you had that choice, but instead decided to involve all of us in the airing of your dirty laundry. Grow up and stop being a childish whiner! If you blanket bomb multiple lists for weeks and don’t expect people to comment on your posts you are either stupid or so self-absorbed you cannot see reality!"
"We have been cordial and answered your questions. You have responded with rudeness. Quite frankly, you are an ass. Please take us off your lists. You are a mean coward whose method of interpretation and begging for money is sickening. Don't write me again unless you write to apologize...sincerely apologize, not this fake crap you have offered up. It's disgusting, and your brand of Christianity is Pharisaically disgusting as well. I want nothing to do with it."
"If you have not stayed in touch, do you not care if people go through difficult times? Your response here is that YOU are blaming "my hateful"ness on what is going on in my private life. HUH?!?!? You HAVE GOT TO be kidding, Mike. Do you think that I respond to the doctors that way? What about the nurses? What about people that are actually concerned; even the people that I do not care to communicate with? Every thing that you write is so nasty. Not one person on this list, at least that contributes to it consistently, that I am aware has asked me, "Dallas, how is your daughter doing?" All the while knowing what she COULD be going through. Speaking of "it sounds like you and your partner need to spend more time with your family members and less time on this list trying to be a critic of things you know nothing about"(.. at least you put a question mark after it.) Do you think that you actually could guess how many hours that I have spent by my daughter's beside? What about my friend; do you have any idea what it is like to lose your wife to cancer? What a mother? Instead of spewing your angst (or whatever it is) on me, did you ever think of asking me "how are they doing?" Or making a nice comment about them. Do you ever take your eyes off of yourself, even for a brief moment?"
1) FACT: You and John have BOTH made the same false accusation without exegetical evidence. FACT: I could care less if you are working together privately or not - that wasn't my point. FACT: On this list, you BOTH have made the same type of comments/accusations. No slander on my part - good try though - don't seek to place your faults and sins on me. 2) Dallas, "thou art the man" - "if you don't know, don't speak" "you prove yourself every time you open your mouth." 3) From this post and others, it sounds like you and your partner need to spend more time with your family members and less time on this list trying to be a critic of things you know nothing about? Just a thought. * I think that sums up everything I have to say to you Dallas. You remain to be a very hateful man from my perspective. I realize you may be going through a lot in your personal life, but that is no justification for your tone and comments. Trying to believe the best of you, that is my take. But your level of communication just doesn't even warrant a response. If you have any questions or critical comments, please do not direct them toward me. You can always ask Roderick "solo" Edwards or someone else on this list.
“Sam is a RINO. He thinks he is reformed; he thinks he is Calvinist; he thinks he is ______; he is Reformed In Name Only. He is also a liar, vow breaker, a coveter.”
"Once again you are speaking ignorantly (without any real knowledge) of any association, or lack thereof, that I have with John"
"watch your family in Indiana, buddy. You start throwing around comments about me or my friends and you have earned your just reward. Trust me on this one. If I see one more comment in this fashion, you *and* your family will ponder these things you have done for the rest of your life. I have three very good friends from my past in your neck of the woods who will consider it a pleasure working for their old friend. Last warning."
Using the eschatology message board as a springboard to further your rapture cause and try to discredit me was highly dishonest and very poor debate etiquette. Granted, it doesn't worry me because anyone who knows the content of eschatology.com is well-aware that the message board has nothing to do with the practice and philosophy Iteach. Everyone also knows that spam is a huge issue for messageboards, and unfortunately that particular message board has no spamcontrol. And I do not have the time nor desire to monitor thousandsof spam."Perhaps you were somewhat enticed by those spams. That is between you and God."
“Evil...where do you draw the line. You talk in circles when you claim. That God looks at you through the righteousness in Christ but then still speak as if God MUST pour out his wrath upon all evil as if it didn't happen at the cross. It's your own thought pattern that negates what you believe.”
“ou are a lying bastard. I see that you have no interest in the truth or anyone but yourself for that matter. I cannot believe you can sit here and say what you are saying with a straight face. I was seeking some fair treatment, but if you are too insecure to provide that then I can leave without fear that I am leaving anything worthwhile behind. You are just a loser whose only life is in cyberspace so forgive me for not giving a shit what you think about me.”
“You now I am getting really tired of your bullshit hypocrisy. These two spent days insulting my occupation claiming I was a degenerate boss and claiming I was trying to use this forum to make a profit and you said absolutely nothing to them. Then when I get angry enough to respond you spend days making little childish comments like this to condemn me for that. What is your lying about what happened, or misrepresenting me, or claiming my reaction to them for their bullying was somehow worse than their bullying. Your are so full of shit.”
“But what Virgil doesn’t tell anyone is that on the “John Calvin” page on Wikipedia, Virgil himself, who is an “unpublished author,” has posted a “self-promoting” link to an inflammatory and lie-packed article that Virgil himself wrote and posted on his own website. In other words, Virgil is spending his days judging and condemning the works of believers (on Wikipedia) while his own works fail to meet the standard that he himself is using to judge and condemn the works of believers. But if this were not bad enough, while Virgil is deleting links to biblical articles on other websites (Wikipedia), he is at the same time literally stealing large sections of believers’ articles (such as my article “Baptism Now Saves You”) and is posting them on his own website against the requests of the authors. Why do the words “liar,” “thief” and “hypocrite” come to mind?
“Virgil Vaduva lied to you, Yuser. I did not insert a "spam" link, or a "self-promoting deep-link," as Virgil said. I have repeatedly inserted a _legitimate_ link to my _well-sourced_ and _factual_ article critical of Brian McLaren. The article does not mention me or any "ministry" of mine. It is 100% about Brian McLaren. Here is the link:
preteristcosmos.com/mclaren.html
The _only_ problem is that Virgil Vaduva keeps removing the link, because Virgil practically worships Brian McLaren. I am not exaggerating. Virgil is EXTREMELY biased when it comes to his hero Brian McLaren and the "Emergent church." Virgil Vaduva demonizes all who tell the black-and-white truth about Brian McLaren.”
“You really are an arrogant ass!” “a whack job” “Self-righteousness seems to be the only thing you have going for you. and now “a hypocrite” “a sophist”"Sam likes to run over folks and I think we could proably find him under the truck on this one when you got finished. I try to stay as open minded to these guys as best I can and give them the benifit of the doubt but Sam's logic is the most convuluted mess I have ever heard from one person. He says he is highly trained and read in logic but if the world was built upon his understanding then I'm afraid man would have gone the way of the Neanterthals. His thinking just blows ones mind. Only his mother would buy into this logic that he professes. Oh well maybe Jason and Michael B as well."You hypocrite! I’m going to moderate you now, Mike [Bennett].
Preterist T shirt slogans
“We still can’t agree on Genesis 1:1"
"Change your views and we will call you every name under the sun"
"Isnt he/she PATHETIC ?"
"Preterism, excommunicating more people than the catholic church"
"Preterism, 45 strong and still declining"
"Preterism, we are still learning but dammit your wrong"
"I stood up for this man over and over again, going to bat with him,believing his lies of persecution and abuse and supporting him to th nthdegree.What was my repayment? a knife in the back and him sending all theseemails to others talking about how evil we are.Mental illness is a serious issue so I am to making light of it, but Rodreally needs some help, he is delusional, and really seems to be bipolaror at least suffer from sever depression."
"I'm simply tired of what I once saw as a group solidly focused on the > Bible having become nothing but a front group for liars, unethical, > licentious, antinomian, syncretistic, profane, often jelly-spine > people who now seem to desire unity over truth - even unity around > falsehoods & speculations." "You have on your web site accused full Preterists of being guilty of the Hymenaeus heresy. I charge you before the throne of Christ Himself with doing the work of satan.. I wish I had never read you web site.. I hate this very much but I will warn you that if you ignore what I have just written God will indeed judge you for it."
"You thrive on attention - in fact you are nothing without it. You are always claiming you do what you do "for the glory of God" and out of "love." What a total crock. If the rest of you want to watch Roderick eat grass for 7 years, or further apostatize, be my guest. I just don't have time to read such foaming at the mouth/key strokes."
"Although your misrepresentations are clearly calling attention to your “cause”, they are so skewed that they don't do your credibility any favors." "And you display the classic signs of an abused spouse. " "Most of your articles (I only say most because I have not read them all) are so far from reality that it's difficult to understand what is motivating you. It can't be truth. "
"Your site is a tomb of slander, lies and vicious attacks from a person who has no talent, or skills" "In other words, your a IDIOT"
"Well my copy of Beyond Creation Science arrived today and I was not at all surprised to find no exegesis of Genesis. Comments regarding verses, yes, but any real exegesis of Genesis - not at all.I would say that JL said that there would be an exegesis of Chapters 1 to 3 and the chapters on the flood but even when I reference exactly where he says something, he doesn't respond without saying I'm lying etc... so I won't bother."
"I've got no problem with dissent but I've tried to tell you that God is not pleased with distortions and fabrications. At some point they must be deemed intentional and God will hold all accountable who defame His word and the words of His followers." "Come on man...you don't see it? It has "Tim Martin" written all over it?? You babbling pathetic loser... SHHHEEESHHH..."
"So no JL, i don't take you serious. You're making stuff up. You're the one with the chip on the shoulder. It is impossible for you to have any decent conversation before you go linking someone with these nut-jobs over here or those nut-jobs over there...dude is a racist, Clark is a gnostic, Sam's a pathetic loser."
"You now even admit that the syllogism you created was stupid and false, using your own reasoning.How many times does it take for you to admit that you were caught asking for an answer to a stupid unscriptural question and now you can't back it up with a real scriptural question?That seems to be your MO, inventing stupid reasons and blaming them on someone else."
"I am sooo tired of platitudes and the inane people who use them. I mean how stupid can people be?? "
"Look, if you are going to accuse me of eisegesis, then spell it correctly. If you are smart enough to know the difference between eisegesis and exegesis, then you should know how to spell them. Otherwise, don't bring it up. Quit your whining about this crap, and present a cogent argument for a physical resurrection in Dan 12, rather than a questionable interpretation of what "dust of the earth/land" means." "Screw you Ed. Wasn't whining. Man you can be the biggest jerk I've ever come across on the Internet."
"Christ is not going to build His Church on a person (Peter) Parker. He is building it on Himself, hence the body of Christ(not body of Peter). Talk about willful ignorance. You would make a great Mormon. You buy into such crap so easily. Give up your delusions dude. Your pride is not worth it."
"So, it is not that I haven't, more telling would be that you just refuse to accept anything unless it agrees with you. So, spear me that whole line of crap. It's clear your mind is already closed and blinded to anything other than what you want to hear on that topic. Everything else, is just words from people too blind to see your truth."
"I do know how to spell them. I notice you changed the error. It wasn't that I misspelled anything. My mind merely substituted a different word for the word I meant to use. Are you now telling me you're so perfect you never make mistakes like that? I guess I should take the time every time you make a mistake and then tell you to drop the argument, because after all, since you made the mistake you should bring it up. SHeeeeesh, Ed you're a freakin' jerk. No wonder you get into fights with everyone here. "
"sheesh, you get me. This whole conversation has had nothing to do with whether or not universalism is true or not true, or heretical or not, or even biblical or not. It only consisted of whether or not you are one, period. Your entire argument this whole time is why you are not, and now suddenly you are proud of it. Like how can I say it, YOUR A FREAKIN' JERK!"
"I'm continually amazed and perplexed by your persistent sniping. Do you not understand how cowardly it is to hide behind a blog without revealing your name? Is there never any shame in the way you mischaracterize the motivations of those you know nothing about? Your venom is all over your sleeve. All you appear to live for is to distort what you apparently never understood."
"As for Norm, what the hell do you mean, man? When did I EVER SAY that I did not find science useful? This is why I am convinced that you guys have not studied or read much philosophy of science. I have for almost 15 years now. Amish? Huh? Wha? Just because science cannot make absolute statements (which many of the greatist minds have stated,which I have quoted in my articles on science, which you guys have never read, though you say you have), does not mean that science is not USEFUL....hammers are useful...Noah found one useful for arc building. Looking through a magnifying glass is useful, but don't expect to come to any ABSOLUTE conclusions (conclusions true always, all the time, in all possible worlds, every time). This is so simple, really. I have a suggestion for you guys...pick up a book on logic, and read about inductive logic. Better yet, google "the problem of induction" and you will find a man named David Hume....a great philosopher....and you see PROVEN that scientific methodology cannot EVER come to an ABSOLUTE statements about ANYTHING. Now, excuse me, I have to go warm my food in a scientific contraption called a microwave."
"I love what the Scriptures say. I just reject your pathetic interpretation, just as I reject the pathetic attempts of futurists when dealing with the NT time statements."
"You expect me to leave you alone, yet you continue to attack me with your lies and falsehoods. Pathetic."
"But here's the real question Rich - where have you seen me call JL a 'fool', a 'gnostic', a 'pathetic loser', and now, get this - here's the latest from JL - Sam is not even a brother in Christ anymore."
"1. I don't believe half of what you write anymore. Most of these "slurs" are your invention. Over on my forum, you painted one of Sam's posts as though he was implying that you deny miracles and that is NOT what he said. It's like you try to turn every single comment by him into some attack against you personally...so no, i don't buy half of your accusations most of the time.2. Regardless of Sam or I, what do we have to do with YOU calling someone a "pathetic loser"?Is this situational ethics or something? You sound like Adam, "but, but the woman thou gave me, she...." blah, blah, blah.It's uncalled for JL - bottom line. I don't care how Sam treats you. He's not your standard. I am not your standard."
"You professionals won't do the work. That leaves it to us amateurs.You are a pathetic joke."
"You accuse Sam of being inconsistent, yet it is your view that is.You accuse Sam of being "illogical" but it is you that uses fallacies often in your writing.There is nothing "illogical" or even "inconsistent" about Sam's conclusions " "Again Tom you are very confused. You have to ignore so much of the bible to come to that conclusion. "
http://preteristheresy.blogspot.com/2008/01/mark-325-if-house-is-divided-against.html
