Norman Voss: "Their imperfection was not due to a biological descent from Adam but because they "sinned" and could not obtain God through their own perfection either. Rom 5:12 ... and in this way DEATH CAME TO ALL MEN, BECAUSE ALL SINNED."
Davo "WRONG Norm… your CC (Covenant Creation) hermeneutic WILL NOT ALLOW "all men" and "all sinned" to have ANY applicability or relevance BEYOND your "covenant world" –– this is the gaping hole in Tim's, Jeff's and yours CC model.
Norm, it is clear from Jeff's words: "How Adamic death compares to non-life outside the covenant, Scripture doesn't say" that Jeff, and undoubtedly Tim too, believes the Bible for all intents and purposes, speaks ONLY to *the sin of the covenantal people in Adam*. From WHERE then do you Jeff or Tim have ANY BIBLICALLY case for UNIVERSALLY applying *sin* beyond a covenant people –– thus your "DEATH CAME TO ALL MEN, BECAUSE ALL SINNED" does NOT apply to the bulk of humans of history. These are the CLEAR "implications" of your CC hermeneutic.
IF then *SIN* in effect is all and only restricted COVENANTALLY, as Tim, Jeff and Norm's CC contends, then OC Israel must needs be wholly and solely condemned in the FIRST Adam AND thus indeed wholly and solely redeemed in the LAST Adam –– and so Paul was 100% correct when he repeats: "For this is My covenant when I take away their sins" Rom 11:27 –– it can ONLY be OC Israel's *sin*, and so ALL OC Israel was duly and universally "saved" by Christ's new covenant."
So Tim Martin's view is actually SUPPORTING universalism.
blog.planetpreterist.com/index.php?itemid=1801
Davo "WRONG Norm… your CC (Covenant Creation) hermeneutic WILL NOT ALLOW "all men" and "all sinned" to have ANY applicability or relevance BEYOND your "covenant world" –– this is the gaping hole in Tim's, Jeff's and yours CC model.
Norm, it is clear from Jeff's words: "How Adamic death compares to non-life outside the covenant, Scripture doesn't say" that Jeff, and undoubtedly Tim too, believes the Bible for all intents and purposes, speaks ONLY to *the sin of the covenantal people in Adam*. From WHERE then do you Jeff or Tim have ANY BIBLICALLY case for UNIVERSALLY applying *sin* beyond a covenant people –– thus your "DEATH CAME TO ALL MEN, BECAUSE ALL SINNED" does NOT apply to the bulk of humans of history. These are the CLEAR "implications" of your CC hermeneutic.
IF then *SIN* in effect is all and only restricted COVENANTALLY, as Tim, Jeff and Norm's CC contends, then OC Israel must needs be wholly and solely condemned in the FIRST Adam AND thus indeed wholly and solely redeemed in the LAST Adam –– and so Paul was 100% correct when he repeats: "For this is My covenant when I take away their sins" Rom 11:27 –– it can ONLY be OC Israel's *sin*, and so ALL OC Israel was duly and universally "saved" by Christ's new covenant."
So Tim Martin's view is actually SUPPORTING universalism.
blog.planetpreterist.com/index.php?itemid=1801
