To Visitors

Hey everyone,
Just a quick note for those visiting my blog. This blog has not been updated in over a year because I have lost interest in writing about Preterism. Back in the day, this blog was very active and wildly popular. Thankfully, I have taken a long break from posting to this blog and for over a year turned it off. I only recently turned it back on, as a witness against this doctrine. Honestly, I can't stomach reading Full Preterist material and find posting a waste of time.

For those who think Full Preterism is the next big thing and you can't wait to find the next guy to debate, I encourage you to RUN AWAY. You will never find that diamond you are looking for. This is coming from an ex-full preterist.

A preterist lives in the past and can't look beyond the past. It is all the same ol' thing. The product they are selling today is the same product that they where spewing out 10 years ago when I first encountered this doctrine . Nothing new and exciting has happened since then. It will continue being the same old message and will never be more that what it is today.

Granted, there are some people who may want to engage these people in a debate. Debating these people is always harsh and senseless.

Any information from this blog is welcomed to be used and copied. This site has always been and continues to be anonymous.

May all you paths be straight. God Bless.

Rabid left-wing Preterists

Parson's Pen Blog says "What do the left-wing attacks upon Vice-Presidential candidate Sarah Palin have in common with the Apostolic Full-Preterist’s method of defending their doctrine? Just as the rabid left-wing liberals have been particularly demeaning in their personal attacks upon Palin, the Apostolic Full-Preterists have been equally demeaning in their personal attacks upon anyone that disagrees with them. I should know, having made several efforts to engage them in a civil intellectual discussion of their views."

"The presumptive approach by the Apostolic Full-Preterist in defining their views leads to some extremely peculiar ideas. In order to keep consistency that ALL prophecy was fulfilled in 70 AD, Satan no longer deceives, devours, or accuses. He, according to the Apostolic Full-Preterists, was in 70 AD hurled into the fiery abyss we call Hell. Since that date there has been a cessation of demonic possession that you read about repeatedly in the New Testament. The Full Preterists in our Apostolic ranks can provide no explanation for the continued existence of evil and the testimonies of demons being cast out by our Apostolic fathers. Neither can they provide an explanation of who is leading the kingdom of darkness since Satan has been in the fiery abyss for the past 2,000 years."

"Apostolic Full-Preterists also claim that the 1,000 year reign of Christ only lasted 37 years. They define the 1,000 years as to be figurative and should be defined as “many”, rather than a literal 1,000 years. Again, they ignore that 37 years is NOT considered to be MANY or A LONG TIME."

"What about the comparison of the left-wing attacks on Sarah Palin and the Apostolic Full-Preterist method of debate? Apostolic Full-Preterists do not take kindly to the disproving of their pet points. Their ire usually is shown in a ridiculing attack that mocks, insults, and demeans those that disagree. Rather than to intellectually defend their position, their preferred method is to “intimidate or anger” anyone that dares to challenges their doctrine."

http://bloggerparson.blogspot.com/2008/09/how-to-talk-to-apostolic-full-preterist_26.html

All Enemies Are Defeated in 70 AD

David Embury (Davo) "Where has your consistent preterism gone? God has already resolved the "death" issue, thus there is no continuance of death post mortem – that's the good news of the Gospel – the death has been dealt its final blow, and as a consequence God has no more enemies. In the Parousia DEATH being the LAST enemy was destroyed, and that pretty much covers ALL enemies – there can be NO enemies beyond this LAST one. Therefore, IF the last enemy to be destroyed was death, then regardless of what you, I or anyone else thinks – God has no more enemies – from God's perspective. Having made peace through the blood of Christ's Cross, God HAS reconciled all things in heaven and on earth to Himself. So even if in the ignorance or arrogance of some men's feeble minds they consider themselves as God's enemies, from HIS perspective they are not; even Paul affirms this:"

planetpreterist.com/news-5559.html#41232

The Imagination of Hyper-Preterists Never Ceases to Amaze

"Just think: someday a young believer will walk into a Christian bookstore and go to the prophecy section: instead of seeing 60 pre-mill dispy titles, 2 amill titles, and 1 book by either Demar or Hanegraaff, they'll see books by Preston, Frost, Kloske, Martin, Birks, Noe, Simmons, and King. There will be CD series by Birks and Curtis. There will be debates by Preston. Who knows, there may even be books by Gary DeMar and Kenneth Gentry talking about why, near the end of their lives and ministries, they abandoned their partial preterist postmillenialism and embraced covenant eschatology. Maybe even one or two 1- volume commentaries on the whole Bible, from a preterist view. How about a Preterist study Bible?"

(source: http://preterism.ning.com/profiles/blog/show?id=1632544%3ABlogPost%3A30360&page=3#comment-1632544_Comment_30718)

These guys are totally nuts. If the delusions of their doctrine was not enough, now one Hyper-Preterist believes their view will go mainstream. This is an impossibility that has not happened nor will it ever.

More Holes in Hyper-Preterism

mari4him comments "On that premise, ALL prophecies were fulfilled in 70 AD, thus these things were for those of that day and not for or about us. Thus this means then the saints were resurrected and gathered up meeting Jesus.

They would have reigned with Jesus for 1000 years, according to the prophecies in Scripture. And, during this 1000 years, Satan was chained and bound, no longer able to deceive the nations. After these 1000 years, Satan would then "be set free for a 'short' time".

So, if this is all so and if it has all occurred already. If the prophecies were fulfilled in 70 AD, the 1000 year reign of Christ and binding of Satan would have all occurred, then this would have taken us to the year 1070 AD. (fulfillment of the 1000 years taken literally to mean 1000 years)

• Why then is there no accounting of this incredible time in our history?
• Why then is there no record of this period of time where 'sin' did not occur?
• Why is there no account of such time in our history where the signs as given in Matthew 24:29-31 where it states that immediately after the period of tribulation, "the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven"?
• Where is the accounting for the anti-christ that was prophesied would come?

If after this 1000 year reign of Christ occurred, Satan would be released for a "short" time. (Considering the term "short" in light of how you continuously claim it to be by man's understanding of time)...

• Why then has Satan been then released for 938 years?
• Do you consider 938 years to be a "short" time?
• Do you deny the existence of Satan and his army deceiving the nations today?
• And, if you don't deny the existence of Satan/of evil and corruption in our world today, then do you call God a liar when He stated that upon Christ return we would be with Christ, that the old would be passed away and we would behold a new heaven and new earth FREE of corruption and FREE of sin?

Also, according to some of what you said, if I am not mistaken, it appears you believe that man would die, be raised up and yet die again, since these resurrected saints obviously are not walking among us today. Therefore...

• How do you explain that in Hebrews it clearly tells us that "it is appointed for a man to die once, but after this the judgment"?
• How do you explain that in Hebrews it also tells us that "Christ was offered ONCE to bear the sins of many" and that upon His second coming the world would experience life without sin and with the fulfillment of true salvation?
• How do you again explain that there is still sin in the world as we know it today?

Furthermore, during the days of Jesus and the disciples the written word was in fact the OT and considering that the NT was written after Jesus, what do you make of when Jesus states "as it was written". Isn't it clear that the fulfillment Jesus speaks of is in direct relationship to the OT as the OT is the only thing that was "written" while Jesus was here?

And, if all was fulfilled by 70 AD, meaning nothing left to fulfill, then what about all those who have died for the cause of Christ since then? All those who are considered martyrs for the cause, the faith, are all their deaths simply in vain? I mean if all was fulfilled, what exactly was the purpose of them going out, being persecuted and laying down their lives for the cause of Christ?

Furthermore, what is the point of any of us preaching the Gospels to anyone? Why should any of us seek to expand the Kingdom of God if all has already been fulfilled and there is no further hope of Christ's return for all of us who came after 70 AD?

In fact, why do you even worry about whether or not we understand your theology if it really matters not, Christ has already returned, all has been fulfilled and there is nothing left for any of us? No blessed hope, assurance, or expectation of His return. No looking forward to the day that satan will be bound and cast into the pit. No looking forward to this new incorruptible heaven and earth where sin no longer abounds but which is the home of righteousness.

I mean if, all these things have come to pass already, if there is already the new heavens and the new earth where all is incorruptible and sin no longer abides, where death has no sting and victory over all evil has been accomplished, whereby we simply kneel at the feet of Christ in worship all the time, free from tears, free from pain, free from struggles, free from trials and tribulation, then does this truly not portray God to be some sort of cruel puppet master to have those of us, who came after 70 AD, after 1070 AD living here on this corruptible earth where sin does abide, where evil does still show its face and where we still have tears, pain, sufferings, trials and tribulations."

Would this all truly not go against the very character of God being loving, forgiving, full of grace and mercy and instead make Him out to be some cruel being watching us struggle or suffer?

http://www.city-data.com/forum/christianity/436516-scriptures-completely-blow-preterism-out-biblical-11.html

Holes in Hyper-Preterism

mari4him comments "If the prophecies of the book of Revelations have already come to pass, and if Jesus second coming has already occurred, would it not be that a couple of things would be evident in this day and age.

• 1st, the kingdom of God, both spiritual and physical would be fully manifested before us.
• 2nd, Satan would be bound and cast away, no longer free to seek the souls of man.
• 3rd, would we not be living in the resurrection fully, not just spiritually, which means, there is no marriage, no family connections as we know them.
• 4th, if we are living in the resurrection, why do we still experience sufferings, illnesses and death.

In other words, I do believe that through the death and resurrection of Christ we experience the spiritual resurrection here and now. Meaning that if I am in Christ, therefore it is no longer I who lives, but Christ who lives within me, the old passes away and all things are made new. But tells us that we will be resurrected as Christ, this is body and spirit, the full manifestation of this has yet to come in that while we have a spiritual ressurection, the physical ressurection has not occurred.

It is obvious in this day and age that Satan is not bound as he is still seeking to devour the souls of God's creation. It is obvious that in this day and age, we still live in an earth where family connections exist and marriages occur. It is obvious that in this day and age, we still live in a world where suffering, illness and death occur. Therefore, if we believe that ALL has already come to pass, where is the differences in the lives we live today, with those facts I just mentioned, still so evident in our lives. Would this imply that Christ second coming made no impact on our lives, in this world? Would it then claim God to be a liar?

Jesus spoke of both, the kingdom that was there present in that moment with His presence, and He also spoke of the kingdom that was to come, He stated the time of which no man knows the day, the hour but that when it occurs all would know. Scripture warns us that if we have to know of this coming through someone telling us, it has not occurred, for when it occurs all would see it, all would know.

2 Peter 3 tells us (and I'm paraphrasing a lot) of how scoffers will come asking where is this promise of His coming since our father's died but that God is not slow in keeping His promises in terms of what we understand slow to be. Rather He is patient with His children as it is His desire that not a one would perish. However, He is clear that He will come like a thief and that the old will be done away with and we will behold a new Heaven and a new Earth, and this shall be a home of righteousness.

I do understand (to an extent) the "confusion" because of the claims made with the terminology of "the time is near". However, God is not the author of confusion and it would be prudent for us to remember that scripture warns us against measuring God's timing by way of man's understanding of time. It tells us clearly that to the Lord one day could be as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day. So while it is stated the time is near, what is near to man's mind, or what man may understand to be near, may in fact be a day for the Lord yet a thousand years for man, two days days for the Lord, while appearing as two thousand years to man, and so on.

The essence is we are to be watchful for this 2nd coming of Christ. We are to be filled with expectation of it and be mindful in our efforts to be found spotless and without blemish. If we remove all this saying that it has already occured, which I do not believe it has, where then does that leave the children of God today if none of this blessed hope and expectation is of things yet to come.

My belief is that the book of Revelation is a book of prophecy, not of history. It is the blessed hope and promises for those who stand fast in their faith and watch for the Lord's return. To try to change that, is to not heed the warnings that was clearly given in 2 Timothy 2:15-18.

"Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. But shun profane and idle babbling, for they will increase to more ungodliness. And their message will spread like cancer. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort, who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some".

http://www.city-data.com/forum/christianity/436516-scriptures-completely-blow-preterism-out-biblical-9.html

Dead Raised From Hades Prior to AD70

Rusureofit comments on a Hyper-Preterist blog on the issue of Hymenaeus and Philetus. "If Paul in 1st Thess.4:13 is yet looking for the dead to be raised from Hades at some point in the future around AD 70 then how come in 1st Corinthians 15:16 He says: "For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either." Hadn't Christ been raised from Hades at that point yet? If so then the dead in Hades must have also been raised. Hence we have the witnesses to attest to that resurrection in Matthew 27:50-53; "50And when Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice, he gave up his spirit. ; 51At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook and the rocks split. 52The tombs broke open and the bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. 53They came out of the tombs, and after Jesus' resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many people."

If Jesus appeared after his resurrection to prove he had been raised from hades wouldn't the other saints that appeared to many be doing the same thing?

I have read that 1 Corinthians was written after 1 Thessalonians but still years before the temple was destroyed. If the dead were raised in AD 70 then how could Paul say "For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either." Isn't this past tense? Or did Paul change his mind from the time he wrote 1 Thessalonians until he wrote 1 Corinthians? Or is he talking about a different resurrection? This one has got me stumped......."

planetpreterist.com/news-5559.html#41155

Hyper-Preterist response to this question Parker "The better translation might be "if the dead are not to be raised, then Christ has not been raised" or "if the dead don't raise, then Christ has not been raised." The NT theology is CLEAR that Jesus was the first to rise out of Hades and that the rest of the dead were to get out of Hades much later (at AD 70)."

Is Hyper-Preterism a Cult?

John Church (1829) - All this was not fulfilled when he desolated Jerusalem

The National Preacher
By Dr. John H. Church (1829)

“Having thus spoken of his coming by death, and given warning to prepare for this momentous event, Christ was naturally led to foretell his coming to judge the world, and render to all according to their deeds. And thus he passed from the destruction of Jerusalem to the state of every man, either at death, or at the final judgment ; and spoke for the instruction and warning of men in all future time. But all this was not fulfilled when he desolated Jerusalem.”

“All men did not then die, or have their bodies changed ; nor were all men then judged and rewarded according to their works. The dead were not then raised from their graves ; nor were all nations gathered before the Judge. But few, comparatively, were collected ; and these were unbelieving Jews and Romans. A part of these were destroyed ; but without any visible process of their works being brought into judgment. The others were continued in a state of probation. The Christian church was not then gathered before the Judge ; but its members remained dispersed among the nations. The final separation was not then made between the wise and foolish virgins ; nor were the faithful servants rewarded, and the slothful cast into outer darkness, as Christ represents in the parables concerning them. Christ did not then visibly come in person, so that every eye could see him, attended by all the holy angels, and sitting on a throne of glory as his judgment-seat. He did not then, in an open and public manner, separate all nations one from another, and divide them into two classes, the righteous and the wicked, placing them in two distinct companies, on his right hand, and on his left ; and then say to the righteous, " Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world ;" and to the wicked, " Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels."

“These things neither did nor could take place, when, by the Roman armies, he cut off some thousands of obstinate Jews. His coming to gather all nations before him, and to judge and pronounce final sentence upon them, according as they have done good or evil, as described in connection with 'the text, is vastly different from his coming to inflict his wrath on a small part of his enemies, within the limits of Jerusalem. So that the prediction of hip coming to judge the world in righteousness has not yet been fulfilled.” (Page 39)

http://books.google.com/books?id=BCYPAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA39&dq=Destruction+coming+past+date:1800-1830&lr=&as_brr=0&ei=3rM1SeNykpDNBPKAscwJ#PPA39,M1

Daniel Buck (1856) The eye of hope has ever been directed to things beyond the present life

Our Lord's Great Prophecy, and Its Parallels Throughout the Bible
By Daniel Buck (1856)

"When it is remarked, that the prophecy is now finished, it not meant that there is nothing afterwards introduced which is of a prophetic character, for there are several instances to be noticed." "The wretched attempts to make it (PH: all prophecy) apply somehow to the period of the downfall of Jerusalem, are certainly too superficial, and too utterly destitute of any historical evidence, to deserve a formal reply. Let any one endeavor to fix upon some historic evidence of Christians being redeemed, as the figurative theory supposes, upon the downfall of the Jewish, nation ; let him satisfy himself as to what Christ meant by "these things beginning to come to pass," and thus indicating their redemption drawing nigh; — let him produce a single Scripture or historic proof that " the kingdom of God was nigh at hand," implying that the gospel kingdom had not been previously established let him refer to a single proof of any kind that the destruction of the Jewish nation had anything to do, either with the beginning, or the establishing of the gospel kingdom, and this portion of the Treatise shall be confessed to be a failure.”

The Bible has no where contradicted the declaration of Christ to his disciples, " In the world ye shall have tribulation ; " John xvi. 33. The whole spirit, as well as the letter, of the Scriptures shows that God's people are not to expect any " continuing city " in this world. Their eye of hope has ever been directed to things beyond the present life. There is no promise, not one, of a time of general rest to God's people, before the second coming of Christ at the last day.

The " redemption" for which they are encouraged to " lift up their heads," is something more than a mere temporary cessation or alleviation of their sufferings in this world. They are taught to look for their redemption from sufferings, and their final blessedness, in connection with their reception of "an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for us, who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation, ready to be revealed in the last time,- wherein we greatly rejoice, though now for a season (if need be) we are in heaviness through manifold temptations ; that the trial of our faith, being more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise, and honor, and glory, at the appearing of Jesus Christ" " Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you, at the revelation of Jesus Christ." 1 Pet. i. 4-7 and 13.*"

AMEN!!!!

http://books.google.com/books?id=h3hCAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA382&dq=%22some+historic+evidence+of+Christians+being+redeemed%22&lr=&ei=NGk1SdWuMYXAMsDsgMgE#PPA382,M1

Terry Benton: How Hyper-Preterism is LIKE CANCER

Terry Benton Debate with Don Preston says "His whole doctrine is built around a "consummation" theory of Jesus having to "come back out of the MHP" before His sacrifice can benefit us. Thus, you have seen what blindness comes with this AD 70 doctrine. It is a position that turns the first forty years after Jesus’ death upside-down. It turns the teaching of the New Testament on end and changes every verse it touches. Nothing is clear any more. There is a fitting description that would still apply to doctrines like this. It is like a CANCER. It consumes until it destroys every major doctrine of the New Testament.

2 Tim 2:17-18 "And their message will spread like CANCER . Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort, 18 who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some." NKJV

eschatology.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=568&Itemid=61

James Gall (1887) - Second Coming ALSO refers to DEATH?

Wherein millenarians are wrong
By James Gall (1887)

"The form in which the question was put enabled our Lord to give an answer, more to their and our edification than they intended ; and, as it was conveyed in a prophetic style, that is to say, a highly figurative and poetic form, it was, like prophecy in general, capable of more than one application. We need not be surprised, therefore, to find three different Comings alluded to, all of them Comings of the Son of Man to Judgment — First, Christ's coming at the destruction of Jerusalem ; Second, Christ's coming to judge the world at the last day ; and Third, and most important of all, Christ's coming at death ; and these are so blended together that it is neither very easy nor very important to separate them. It cannot be objected to this, that there is a mingling of subjects which are widely different in the same prophecy, because that is characteristic of prophecy in general. CHRIST'S COMING TO JUDGMENT is the subject of the prophecy, and He refers to three of them. If Millenarians refuse to admit this, and insist on the prophecy having only one application, they destroy their own argument, because, in that case, the "Coming" referred to must be the destruction of the Temple and the end of the Dispensation, not His Second Coming to judge the world. If Christ did not answer that question, He answered none at all, because that was the only question that was put to Him. But, although it is evident that much of the prophecy referred to the destruction of the Temple, and, therefore, was a fair answer to their question, it would be impossible to apply the whole prophecy, either to the destruction of the Temple, and the close of the Levitical dispensation, or to the Second Coming. For example, the compassing of Jerusalem with armies, and its being trodden down of the Gentiles, cannot apply to the Second Advent, but only to the destruction of the Temple. " (Page 178)

“The only possible reference is to the coming of Christ at death. "Watch, therefore, for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. Therefore be ye also ready, for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of Man cometh. "Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season ? Blessed is that servant whom his lord, when he cometh, shall find so doing. Verily I say unto you, that he shall make him ruler over all his goods. But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, my lord delayeth his coming ; and shall begin to smite his fellow-servants, and to eat and drink with the drunken ; the lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour when he is not aware of ; and shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites : there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth " (verse 48-51). This parable cannot possibly refer to the destruction of Jerusalem, because preparedness for it did not consist in being a good servant, but in readiness to run away.” (Page 185) “But it does not follow that because, an event, when it does take place, may be sudden and unexpected; therefore, it may take place before its predicted time. In regard to death, there may be no warning given, and it may take place at any time ; but in regard to the destruction of Jerusalem, and the Lord's Second Coming, there were certain events that were to happen before they took place. (page 186)

Hyper-Preterism - A Damnable Heresy

William Price "The Hymenaen heresy known as preterism is one of the damnable heresies being promoted within the Church today. This resurrected heresy, which has renewed roots within Roman Catholicism, has been creeping unaware in many Apostolic churches, and so long as liberal and apathetic pastors are in the pulpit, this heresy will continue its destructive path.

And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus; Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. (2 Timothy 2:17-18)

This full preterist doctrine is heresy personified, because it removes our faith, and overthrows the beliefs of many. The early apostles condemned this teaching, a teaching that men have chosen to go to Hell over. Men who have decided that the hope of Christianity is not their hope, but their hope is only in this life. This is a damnable heresy, to say the least, one that is hopeless, faithless, and futureless."

http://acts238newcovenant.wordpress.com/2008/11/22/the-lack-of-hope-full-preterist-heresy/

The power of comparing words...

Hyperpreterist Propaganda	The Truth
We [hyperpreterists] try to draw off of as much Evangelical theology as possible. There is so much good stuff from first rate scholars like Joel B. Green, J. Christian Beker, N.T. Wright, James Dunn, F. F, Bruce, etc. None of these men are full preterists, but their eschatology is so close it is scary. (Hyperpreterist – Samuel Frost)	"You may be allowed to eat meat offered to idols, but you cannot deny the future bodily resurrection and claim that denial as an allowable Christian option." N.T. Wright, The Resurrection of the Son of God, pg 331

Source
preterism.ning.com/forum/topics/what-do-i-do-now?page=1&commentId=1632544%3AComment%3A27122&x=1#1632544Comment27122

John Stevenson: Hyper-Preterism's "This Generation" is WRONG

John Stevenson“Therefore, behold, I am sending you prophets and wise men and scribes; some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city, 35 that upon you may fall the guilt of all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, the son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36 Truly I say to you, all these things shall come upon this generation.” (Matthew 23:34-36).

Notice that it was “this generation” that murdered Zechariah, the son of Berechiah. The problem is that this murder took place 400 years earlier as recorded in 2 Chronicles 24:20-21. This tells us that Matthew’s use of the term “generation” means something different than a mere life span of the people who were living at that time."

http://www.angelfire.com/nt/theology/preterist.html

Lewis Todd (1834) How we USE TO Kick Hyper-Preterism to the curb, back in the day!!!! ROFL

A Defence Containing the Author's Renunciation of Universalism Explained and Enlarged: The Notices and Aspersions of Universalist Editors Answered and Repelled ; Arguments and Principles of Universalists, Examined and Exploded and Religion and Revelation Vindicated Against Skepticism and Infidelity
By Lewis C. Todd (1834)

"Again when "all nations were gathered together before him," and the King said to them on the left hand, "depart from me ye cursed," &c. who and what did he mean? Why the wicked persecuting Jews. Well, let these stand for the wicked of all nations. How did they depart into (aionion) everlasting fire; and go away into (aionion) everlasting punishment? Why, they were slain by the sword and by famine, and went to the everlasting joys of heaven! MONSTROUS ABSURDITY! Let us see the absurd thing once more, in form of a paraphrase."

When the Son of Man shall come in his glory and all the holy angels with him, (when the Roman army shall besiege Jerusalem,) then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory (invisible and unknown both to Jews and Romans,) and before him shall be gathered all nations ; (the Jews and Roman army shall come together,) and he shall separate them one from another as a shepherd divided his sheep from the goats. (The believers shall be separated from the rest of the Jews.) Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand ; come ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. (Come ye blessed of my father, ye shall escape the sword and the famine now at the destruction of Jerusalem ; and ye shall live to suffer all the horrors of persecution — to be sawn asunder, imprisoned, and burned to death, by the Roman Emperors, after they get through punishing the Jews, and sending them to glory !) For I was an hungered and ye gave me meat, &c. (For you Christianize Jews did this to one another.) Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels. (Depart from your country and lives, ye cursed, unbelieving Jews, into death and immediate everlasting happiness in the kingdom of glory, prepared for the Jewish nation, the enemy of Christ, and the high priests, and Judas, and all his adversaries!) And these shall go away into everlasting punishment; but the righteous into life eternal. (And these shall most of them die, which all must do soon, and go away into age-lasting punishment, a state of immortality and bliss; but the righteous into life age-lasting, the enjoyment of the gospel of Christ, by which they shall be persecuted from city to city, bleeding under the lacerating scourge, during life, and at last they shall come to the same place,) or if that will not do, say, (these shall die and go to heaven, and a remnant of them shall be scattered abroad in the earth ; and their posterity shall not come to a knowledge of the gospel for many ages ; but the disciples shall continue to enjoy the gospel which they have enjoyed before.)" (PAGE 263)

Lewis Todd (1834) More DUMB Hyper-Preterists Assertions

A Defense Containing the Author's Renunciation of Universalism Explained and Enlarged: The Notices and Aspersions of Universalist Editors Answered and Repelled ; Arguments and Principles of Universalists, Examined and Exploded and Religion and Revelation Vindicated Against Skepticism and Infidelity
By Lewis C. Todd (1834)

"I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some." - 1 Cor. 9:22. Saved from what? Not from the destruction of Jerusalem? for he refers to those, who did not live at Jerusalem as well as those who did. Was it from their sins, that they might enjoy the comforts of Christianity in this life? Did the apostles toil, and bleed, from land to land, and labor with such intense anxiety, to convert people to Christianity; knowing that all their converts would drink the cup of affliction to its very dregs, would be deprived of every earthly comfort, and suffer every kind of persecution; knowing too, that all would be saved in the next state, whatever they might do here?" (Page 207)

"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ ; that every one may receive the things (done) in ( his) body according to that he hath done, whether (it be) good or bad." — 2 COR. 5:10. — Were the apostle and his brethren then appearing in judgment, and then receiving the things according to their actions? Or was this judgment " the destruction of Jerusalem?" The "destruction of Jerusalem" is a VERY ACCOMMODATING CIRCUMSTANCE FOR UNIVERSALISTS (AKA Hyper-Preterists); but how the destruction of Jerusalem could be a judgment for Paul, in this life, who died before that event took place, and especially, for the Corinthians, who lived in a city at a great distance from Judea and Jerusalem, we have not learning enough to see!" (PAGE 207-208)

"And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?" — Verse 18. — Did Peter mean, they should appear in heaven? Was Peter a universalist? Some have said that Peter here was alluding to the judgment that was to come upon Jerusalem. But he was writing to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Capadocia, Asia, and Bithynia. In what danger were these people of the judgment of Jerusalem? If this judgment was in his mind, he might have preached it to Judea and Jerusalem, but why speak of it in a warning style to people of other countries?" (Page 212)

Walter Balfour (1833): THANKS TO MOSES STUART, I BECAME A UNIVERSALIST

Letters to Rev. Moses Stuart
By Walter Balfour (1833)
(Note: Moses Stuart is a beloved Preterist among most Hyper-Preterists. They sell his books and glorify his writings in every sense of the word. This book consists of letters written to Moses Stuart to convince him that the very views he holds to, are the SAME as that of the Universalists; aka 19th Century Hyper-Preterists. Balfour blames Moses Stuart for converting him to Universalism.)

"I deemed Universalism a great error, sometimes discussed the subject with Universalists and always thought I had the best of the argument. The first thing, which STAGGERED MY FAITH IN THE DOCTRINE OF ENDLESS PUNISHMENT, WAS READING THAT PARAGRAPH OF MR. STUART'S LETTERS TO DR. CHANNING QUOTED IN MY FIRST LETTER. HIS STATEMENTS, I WAS UNABLE TO CONTROVERT, AND THE TEXTS ON WHICH THEY WERE FOUNDED, SEEMED TO SUPPORT THEM." Whether my books, have done any good or evil to the world, they have Mr. Stuart to thank for them. When I wrote those letters, I had as little thought of writing a book in favor of universal salvation, as of creating a new world. All my prejudices, and habits of thinking, as well as my honor and interest, were strongly in favor of the doctrine of endless punishment. TO MR. STUART OF ANDOVER, I AM INDEBTED FOR MAKING ME A UNIVERSALISTS, AND TO HIM THE WORLD ARE INDEBTED FOR MY BOOKS. IF I HAVE EMBRACED AN ERROR, AND HAVE PUBLISHED IT TO THE WORLD, LET ALL WHO THINK SO, KNOW, THAT HE IS THE MAN WHO LED ME ASTRAY; WAS URGED TO GIVE SOME EXPLANATION, BUT DECLINED IT AND THAT NOTHING HAS BEEN SAID BY HIM OR ANY OTHER PERSON, TO SHOW ME MY ERROR." PREFACE

Parsons Cooke (1834) 19th Century Universalists are the Hyper-Preterists of Today

Modern Universalism Exposed
By Parsons Cooke (1834)

"IT IS NOT CALLED THE GOSPEL "EVERLASTINGLY PREACHED", "BUT THE EVERLASTING GOSPEL." . . . IF IN EVERY SENSE OF PERISHING IT WERE ALREADY PAST IN THE MOMENT OF BELIEVING, AND THERE WERE NO ESCAPE FROM A DEATH YET TO COME UPON THE UNBELIEVING. AND WHEN PAUL TO TIMOTHY SAYS FIGHT THE GOOD FIGHT OF FAITH, LAY HOLD ON ETERNAL LIFE, HE WAS GUILTY OF OF AN ABSURDITY ON (MR. HYPER PRETERIST) HYPOTHESIS. FOR TIMOTHY MUST HAVE ALREADY GOT HOLD OF ETERNAL LIFE, IN SUCH SENSE THAT IT COULD NOT BE REGARDED AS A THING YET TO BE TAKEN HOLD OF BY HIM. For in the very verse next preceding, Paul calls him a man of God. If he where then a man of God, he had spiritual life, and could with no propriety be exhorted to lay hold of what he already had. He then proceed to direct Timothy to charge them that are rich to do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate, laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold of eternal life. HERE ETERNAL LIFE IS SPOKEN OF AS WHAT IS TO BE PROVIDED FOR BY GOOD WORKS, LAID IN AS A PROVISION FOR THE FUTURE, A THING NOT NOW IN COMPLETE POSSESSION, BUT TO BE SECURED AGAINST THE TIME TO COME."

(Luke 20:35, " But they which shall be ACCOUNTED WORTHY to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage." Instead of good works..."being found in Christ at the judgment seat". Here's the irony.. they are making the downpayment the full payment...and saying that what the apostles had in part we now have in full and yet, we the miraculous powers ceased when the fullness was supposed to come! We have LESS now, yet it is more full???! As soon as a hyper-preterist can raise the dead, then I'll believe them that we have the fullness of the downpayment now)

"But here the Universalist (Hyper-Preterism) says that the phrase "this world" means only "this age," before the destruction of Jerusalem. Then the passage reads- He that surrenders life in this period, before the destruction of Jerusalem, shall have eternal life BY LIVING THROUGH THAT DESTRUCTION. That is, by suffering himself to be killed before, he shall escape being killed then. . . this interpretation then is miserably lame in every limb and joint."

"And then, what meaning has the word eternal as qualifying spiritual life, IF THAT LIFE BE CONFINED TO THIS WORLD. . . Our author (Mr. Hyper-Preterist) repeatedly, and with an air of triumph, remarks that the exact phrase, eternal death, is not used in the Bible. But if it had been, and had been used in forty instances, what would it avail with such an interpreter? Forty instances of the use of eternal life in every variety of forms, cannot convince him that the writers meant eternal life; and no more would as many repetitions of the phrase eternal death, satisfy him that eternal death was meant. THE ONE COULD AS EASILY BE MADE TO EVAPORATE IN THE DESTRUCTION OF JERUSALEM AS THE OTHER."

Parsons Cooke (1834) No Greater Event in the History of the World than the Destruction of Jerusalem

Modern Universalism Exposed
By Parsons Cooke (1834)

Page 189 "Again, the Universalists (aka Hyper-Preterism) make the doctrine of the resurrection of the dead to be the leading doctrine of the gospel. And there is a sense in which it is truly so. But they exalt this doctrine more than any other class of religionists, in that they find in it the restoration not only of the life of the body, but also of the soul... And yet they pretend that they can believe that a doctrine so important to them, as that of the resurrection, it but seldom mentioned in the discourses of Christ, while the DESTRUCTION OF JERUSALEM IS ON ALL OCCASIONS THE THEME OF REMARK. . . AND YET THEY WILL HAVE US BELIEVE THAT AN EVENT OF NO MORE IMPORTANCE IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD, which he came to save, THAN THAT OF JERUSALEM'S DESTRUCTION, CAN OCCUPY THE GREATER PART OF HIS DISCOURSES, recorded in the evangelists."

"If I would be a Universalist (HP) after the model of these writers, I must furthermore believe that Paul being now ready to be offered, and the time of his departure at hand, had his soul filled with emotions unutterable, in anticipation of a crown that he was to receive at the time of Jerusalem's destruction."

"Having shown that these words a shadow of proof they have that meaning here, he (Mr. Hyper-Preterist) then assumes further that to come forth to a resurrection of life, means to come into the happiness enjoyed by the believer in this world, and to come forth unto the resurrection of damnation means the experience of the temporal judgments, which came upon the unbelieving Jews at the close of their dispensation. . . And then it seems that all who are in their graces, that is spiritually dead, in all parts of the wold and in all ages, are to come forth-are to experience this moral resurrection, and be made to believe, and then those of them who did not do good before they believed, were to have their belief one of damnation, and die in the destruction of Jerusalem. NOW WHERE IS THE SOBER MAN WHO CAN DIGEST ALL THIS FARRAGO, AND CALL IT FAIR INTERPRETATION OF THE WORD OF GOD!

(1850) WHY IMAGINE THAT THEY WHERE ALWAYS THINKING OF THE DESTRUCTION OF JERUSALEM?

The Christian Examiner and Religious Miscellany (1850)By Alvan Lamson, Ezra Stiles Gannett, George Putnam, American Unitarian Association, George Edward Ellis

When the Apostle said, in any way, "Brethren, the time is short," we suppose they meant very much the same that we mean when we say the same thing. WHY IMAGINE THAT THEY WHERE ALWAYS THINKING OF THE DESTRUCTION OF JERUSALEM, OR THE DESTRUCTION OF THE WORLD? Christ came in these, but not in these only. He came in the whole power of his religion, AND IS COMING NOW, in the spread of his truth, and the blessings of his kingdom. (AKA. The visible coming was just the outward show of his spiritual comings. The whole advent was a revelation of that which is spiritual.)

ONE MAJOR FLAW OF HYPER-PRETERISM NOTED. "But for this very reason, partly, we include to give it a large spiritual signification, rather than a local and temporary one. Suppose all such language to refer only to an outward event, and one that has long since passed, it deprives the Epistle of half their interest and efficancy." page 306 (Hence Hyper-Preterism forsakes the individual, for the outward historical shadow.)

"Let it first be noted, that it is not a question as to the truth of the resurrection or judgment, but only the time and mode. No truths are more clearly taught, no facts more indisputable established, by the Christian revelation than there will be a resurrection from death, and "after this the judgment." But are these to be distant, material, visible, and all at one time, or instant, spiritual, and individual? This is the single and simple inquiry, - whether the resurrection and judgment are connected with the close of life, or with the end of the world." Page 310

Another Early Universalist insisting on Hyper-Preterist Truths

The Universalist and Ladies' Repository. The Universalist and Ladies' Repository Published by B.B. Mussey, 1843

Many pastors who has learned his people to hate the Universalists mode of interpreting prophecies, is now reaping his reward in the desolations over which he is called to mourn. . . Christ's second coming was at, or about the time of the destruction of Jerusalem, A.D., 70. This we can easily prove . . . and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished," - not merely fulfilled, but finished. . . and thus you see how we can get along when we start right - by making Scripture explain Scripture, and making Scripture measure its own time, too, without putting us to the trouble. (AKA. To Them, Not To Us) The abomination of desolation refers to the Roman army besieging Jerusalem.

David Lord (1850) The Price of Tea in China

David N. Lord (1850) These views which were entertained by the apostles and their disciples of the place which their resurrection holds in their salvation, thus furnish an explanation of their waiting and looking for the coming of Christ, as the great epoch of their hopes and expectations ; while, on the other hand, on Professor Crosby's theory, it is wholly inexplicable. There was nothing in the fall of Jerusalem, and slaughter, dispersion, and captivity of the Jews, to excite so profound an interest in the believers of Thessalonica, Galatia, or the seven churches of Asia, and prompt them to watchfulness and desire. The supposition of their watching for it is indeed preposterous, asset was an event that did not in any respect affect their personal safety and well-being. Men watch for events that directly concern them, not that simply respect others who reside in remote countries, and whose misfortunes are confined to themselves. It would be absurd to exhort the people of the United States to watch and be ready for an earthquake in Chili, or the eruption of a volcano in Italy. The passages which Prof. C. alleges on this subject, thus confute his theory instead of supporting it. To this series of propositions which form the basis of Proofs' system, he adds two others, which embody the conclusions which he regards as their necessary result.

(The Theological and Literary Journal, Vol. III, October 1850, p. 262-287)

Andrew Perriman - Sectarian Rhetoric of Preterism At Arms Length

Andrew Perriman "The polemical origins, continuing controversialism, and sectarian rhetoric of Preterism make it a difficult movement to evaluate - and I have to admit, my instinct is still to hold it somewhat at arm’s length."

Virgil Vaduva - Emerging folks like Andrew Perriman have pointed out the lack of dynamism and contemporaneous substance in Preterist theology; without the work of people like Ken Gentry those of us full preterists would not be as far along as we are, and here in Dayton we are making very good progress on a "new kind of Preterism" which gives substance and meaning to the lives of Christians rather than just theology with no practical meaning.

planetpreterist.com/news-5198.html#29518

The hoax believers as a whole simply make themselves unaproachable with logic of any sort. They live in their own world with their own rules and truths, and don't let anyone in to rain on their parade. Like I said before, they cling to incorrect or invisible evidence. But when it comes to evidence that DOES exist, "Can't see it, won't hear it!" Scholars are turned off by the dogmatic insistence upon non-scholarly appeals. No amount of insistence can get a true scholar to agree. In fact, the more dogmatism they see, the more certain they become of the instability of those who must rely upon emotion to get their points across.

Roderick Edwards: Hyperpreterism like homosexuality is a distortion of what is true

Roderick Edwards "Hyperpreterism is a distortion of Christianity as much as homosexuality is a distortion of human sexuality. Oh sure, both groups speak of “love”, “tolerance”, “acceptance”. Both groups whine about being rejected & persecuted & that they just want “equality” when in fact over & over you will see both of these groups have an agenda to force & supplant. Both groups want to revise what has been the “traditional” with their “new paradigms” — be it homosexuality or hyperpreterism, both are disgusting distortions of the NATURAL & INTENDED. (Romans 1:26-27)"

Hosea Ballou - "Father of American Universalism" & "Father of Full Preterism"

Hosea Ballou - "Father of American Universalism" & "Father of Full Preterism"

(On the Resurrection)
"The arguments now designed will go to show that the scriptures make use of words signifying a resurrection, in a figurative sense, when nothing beyond this mortal state is intended, that the passage under consideration is of this description ; and that it is proved to be so by comparing it with other passages which evidently have their application in time, and also by comparing it with passages which speak of a resurrection into an immortal state, by observing the difference there is between the two classes. (A Series of Lecture Sermons, p. 339) "Will the hearer now say that all this may be, and that both Daniel and the Saviour were speaking of the resurrection of mankind to a state of immortal happiness and misery in a future world ? To this we reply, when Jesus spoke to his disciples of the destruction of Jerusalem, and of the calamities which should shortly come on the Jews, he uses the words of Daniel nearly verbatim when he speaks of the time of trouble. By this circumstance we are instructed that both Daniel and the Saviour spake of the same time, and of the same events, and that that time was when Jerusalem was destroyed by the Romans.

"The true meaning of the words of Jesus and of the passage in Daniel appears to be this : those Jews who listened to the mild voice of the gospel, proclaimed by Christ and his Apostles, came forth from spiritual death to the life of faith in the new covenant; but those Jews, who rejected the doctrine of salvation, crucified the Saviour, and persecuted his apostles, were those who had done evil, and they were roused from the dormant state in which they lay, as in a covenant of death and a refuge of lies, by the voice of judgment, and come forth to the resurrection of that condemnation which is so particularly pointed out in the 24th and 25th chapters of Matthew ; and which was illustrated in our lecture on that subject." (ibid., p. 342) (1804 - Notes on the Parables of the New Testament: Scripturally Illustrated and Argumentatively Defended)
"In Matt 12:31, 32 (neither in this world nor in that which is to come), "world" means dispensation; "this" world, the legal priestly dispensation; and "that which is to come," the gospel.” "Nothing can be more evident than that what Jesus and his disciples meant by the end of the world was the end of the Jewish polity and their destruction by the Romans.” (p. 81)

“The wrath to come,’ of which John spake, when he said ‘who hath warned you..’ is speaking of the destruction of the Jews and their city, he said ‘For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.” (p. 17)

(1811 - A Treatise on the Atonement)
“If Christ is to be understood as he said, if his words explain his meaning, it is clear, that his coming in his glory.. was some time in the life-time of those to whom he spake. "If this be true, which my opponent with his eyes open, will not dispute, then no objection can be stated, from this parable, against the final holiness and happiness of all men." “We are informed, that Christ came once in the end of the world, to put away sin. The world, of which Christ came in the end, was undoubtedly the dispensation of the legal priesthood." (1820 - A Series of Letters in Defence of Divine Revelation)

"Nor need I speak of Moses who foretold the dealings of God with the house of Israel as if he had lived now and had written their history. But I must insist on your paying some nice attention to the prophesies of Christ concerning the destruction of Jerusalem. This prophesy is recorded very circumstantially in the 24th of Matt. Be so good, sir, as to compare this prophesy with the history written by Josephus and let candor decide whether the author of that prophesy was divinely inspired, or whether he was a poor deceived enthusiast."

"What you say on the subject of prophecy, does not appear to me, either to reflect any light on it, or to call up any question of importance. Your query whether the books of the New Testament were not written after the destruction of Jerusalem, which would suppose that the prophecy of the destruction of that city was written after the events took place of which the prophecy speaks, is an old suggestion in which I am unable to see any thing very reasonable. And I will remark here, that men who seem to lay an uncommon claim to reason, ought to make use of it when arguing on such momentous subjects. What difference would it make whether St. Matthew wrote his gospel before, or after the destruction of Jerusalem, as it respects the prophecy which Jesus delivered concerning it? You allow St. Matthew to be an honest man. You do not doubt then but Jesus did deliver such a prophecy before his death, which was certainly before the destruction of the city. Then surely it makes no difference whether the prophecy was committed to paper before, or after the fulfilment of it. Besides, you seem to urge the _silence_ of St. John on the subject as unfavourable to the account, because he wrote his gospel after Jerusalem was destroyed. As to interpolations which you think might have found their way into the gospels, it appears to me, sir, that a candid consideration of this subject would issue in this conclusion; if any important interpolations had been admitted, they would have produced such a disagreement as to effectually destroy the validity of the books; for if one heresy could be indulged, it is reasonable to suppose that another would be, and so on, which in room of allowing us the scriptures in their present consistent form, would either have destroyed their existence altogether, or have varied so as to confound their ideas."

http://www.preteristarchive.com/StudyArchive/b/ballou-hosea.html

What opened the door? Jesus or 70 AD?

Larry Siegle "The complete removal of the Old Covenant system and the establishment of the New Covenant system opened the door (Note: Larry believes without 70AD the door would STILL be shut. Jesus own statements about "I am the door", was not in effect until 70AD according to Larry. Without 70 AD, people would still be in their sins and could not have salvation today.) for those willing and obedient to enter into salvation “in Christ” and to once again allow the covenantal blessings of heaven to be poured out upon them."

Source: preterist.wordpress.com/2008/11/08/when-paradise-is-restored-at-last/

Dan Parker's Positive Words of Life

Dan Parker writes "I am sure it has all been explained to you but you are even less likely to understand the written word than the first Century Jews were, you know the ones that killed the Christ because he was a heretic. You are an enemy of God same as they were and have made yourself so by your willful blindness. John said "my people die for lack of knowledge" you are doubly as dead as they because you are without excuse. Jesus said on the cross "forgive them for they know not what they do" but he is not here to say that for you."

Source: Email

Thanks DAN for those KIND WORDS. It is people like you that keep this blog alive!!! Your Preterism made all the difference!!! You make your "KIND" so very proud!!!

Brian Simmons: "This Generation" is the ENTIRE Generation of Evil-Doers

Brian Simmons "To restrict such fulfillment to the events of A.D. 70 results in Universalism, for it teaches that the wrath of God has already been exhausted, and therefore can no longer be applied to the enemies of God. But if we simply keep in mind the true meaning of the term "this generation" (Matt. 23: 36) all difficulties will be cleared up. It is the generation of evil-doers to whom our Lord is speaking; and he sets these grievous woes over against special promises offered to the saints: that the people of God, while called to lay down their lives, will ultimately prevail through their Savior JESUS CHRIST."

http://preteristmuseum.blogspot.com/2008/05/this-generation-continues.html

The "Forty Years" WITHOUT Christ's Presence

Rev. Josiah Litch (Millerite)

Christ Yet to Come: A Review of I.P. Warren's Parousia (1880) "He speaks of the fact that the Parousia was 'near'.' If, as the Doctor so strenuously contends, parousia signifies "presence," not "coming" what does he mean by "was near" ? Was there an interval of some forty years after Christ left his disciples on the mountain in Galilee, saying, "Lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world," to the time of Jerusalem's overthrow, when Christ's presence was not with them ? I press this point and urge an answer. Was there forty years, more or less, when they had to work without his omnipresence ? If there was not, and the time of his presence was still future when Paul wrote, where had been his omnipresence ? Either Dr. Warren or his reviewer is confused in his mode of apprehending and expressing this great theme. Does not the word near imply not yet here but coming : and if parousia is near, is it not coming ? How is this ?"

Source: Preterist Archive