Rabid left-wing Preterists

Parson's Pen Blog says "What do the left-wing attacks upon Vice-Presidential candidate Sarah Palin have in common with the Apostolic Full-Preterist’s method of defending their doctrine? Just as the rabid left-wing liberals have been particularly demeaning in their personal attacks upon Palin, the Apostolic Full-Preterists have been equally demeaning in their personal attacks upon anyone that disagrees with them. I should know, having made several efforts to engage them in a civil intellectual discussion of their views."

"The presumptive approach by the Apostolic Full-Preterist in defining their views leads to some extremely peculiar ideas. In order to keep consistency that ALL prophecy was fulfilled in 70 AD, Satan no longer deceives, devours, or accuses. He, according to the Apostolic Full-Preterists, was in 70 AD hurled into the fiery abyss we call Hell. Since that date there has been a cessation of demonic possession that you read about repeatedly in the New Testament. The Full Preterists in our Apostolic ranks can provide no explanation for the continued existence of evil and the testimonies of demons being cast out by our Apostolic fathers. Neither can they provide an explanation of who is leading the kingdom of darkness since Satan has been in the fiery abyss for the past 2,000 years."

"Apostolic Full-Preterists also claim that the 1,000 year reign of Christ only lasted 37 years. They define the 1,000 years as to be figurative and should be defined as “many”, rather than a literal 1,000 years. Again, they ignore that 37 years is NOT considered to be MANY or A LONG TIME."

"What about the comparison of the left-wing attacks on Sarah Palin and the Apostolic Full-Preterist method of debate? Apostolic Full-Preterists do not take kindly to the disproving of their pet points. Their ire usually is shown in a ridiculing attack that mocks, insults, and demeans those that disagree. Rather than to intellectually defend their position, their preferred method is to “intimidate or anger” anyone that dares to challenges their doctrine."

http://bloggerparson.blogspot.com/2008/09/how-to-talk-to-apostolic-full-preterist_26.html

All Enemies Are Defeated in 70 AD

David Embury (Davo) "Where has your consistent preterism gone? God has already resolved the "death" issue, thus there is no continuance of death post mortem – that's the good news of the Gospel – the death has been dealt its final blow, and as a consequence God has no more enemies. In the Parousia DEATH being the LAST enemy was destroyed, and that pretty much covers ALL enemies – there can be NO enemies beyond this LAST one. Therefore, IF the last enemy to be destroyed was death, then regardless of what you, I or anyone else thinks – God has no more enemies – from God's perspective. Having made peace through the blood of Christ's Cross, God HAS reconciled all things in heaven and on earth to Himself. So even if in the ignorance or arrogance of some men's feeble minds they consider themselves as God's enemies, from HIS perspective they are not; even Paul affirms this:"

planetpreterist.com/news-5559.html#41232

The Imagination of Hyper-Preterists Never Ceases to Amaze

"Just think: someday a young believer will walk into a Christian bookstore and go to the prophecy section: instead of seeing 60 pre-mill dispy titles, 2 amill titles, and 1 book by either Demar or Hanegraaff, they'll see books by Preston, Frost, Kloske, Martin, Birks, Noe, Simmons, and King. There will be CD series by Birks and Curtis. There will be debates by Preston. Who knows, there may even be books by Gary DeMar and Kenneth Gentry talking about why, near the end of their lives and ministries, they abandoned their partial preterist postmillenialism and embraced covenant eschatology. Maybe even one or two 1- volume commentaries on the whole Bible, from a preterist view. How about a Preterist study Bible?"

(source: http://preterism.ning.com/profiles/blog/show?id=1632544%3ABlogPost%3A30360&page=3#comment-1632544_Comment_30718)

These guys are totally nuts. If the delusions of their doctrine was not enough, now one Hyper-Preterist believes their view will go mainstream. This is an impossibility that has not happened nor will it ever.

More Holes in Hyper-Preterism

mari4him comments "On that premise, ALL prophecies were fulfilled in 70 AD, thus these things were for those of that day and not for or about us. Thus this means then the saints were resurrected and gathered up meeting Jesus.

They would have reigned with Jesus for 1000 years, according to the prophecies in Scripture. And, during this 1000 years, Satan was chained and bound, no longer able to deceive the nations. After these 1000 years, Satan would then "be set free for a 'short' time".

So, if this is all so and if it has all occurred already. If the prophecies were fulfilled in 70 AD, the 1000 year reign of Christ and binding of Satan would have all occurred, then this would have taken us to the year 1070 AD. (fulfillment of the 1000 years taken literally to mean 1000 years)

• Why then is there no accounting of this incredible time in our history?
• Why then is there no record of this period of time where 'sin' did not occur?
• Why is there no account of such time in our history where the signs as given in Matthew 24:29-31 where it states that immediately after the period of tribulation, "the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven"?
• Where is the accounting for the anti-christ that was prophesied would come?

If after this 1000 year reign of Christ occurred, Satan would be released for a "short" time. (Considering the term "short" in light of how you continuously claim it to be by man's understanding of time)...

• Why then has Satan been then released for 938 years?
• Do you consider 938 years to be a "short" time?
• Do you deny the existence of Satan and his army deceiving the nations today?
• And, if you don't deny the existence of Satan/of evil and corruption in our world today, then do you call God a liar when He stated that upon Christ return we would be with Christ, that the old would be passed away and we would behold a new heaven and new earth FREE of corruption and FREE of sin?

Also, according to some of what you said, if I am not mistaken, it appears you believe that man would die, be raised up and yet die again, since these resurrected saints obviously are not walking among us today. Therefore...

• How do you explain that in Hebrews it clearly tells us that "it is appointed for a man to die once, but after this the judgment"?
• How do you explain that in Hebrews it also tells us that "Christ was offered ONCE to bear the sins of many" and that upon His second coming the world would experience life without sin and with the fulfillment of true salvation?
• How do you again explain that there is still sin in the world as we know it today?

Furthermore, during the days of Jesus and the disciples the written word was in fact the OT and considering that the NT was written after Jesus, what do you make of when Jesus states "as it was written". Isn't it clear that the fulfillment Jesus speaks of is in direct relationship to the OT as the OT is the only thing that was "written" while Jesus was here?

And, if all was fulfilled by 70 AD, meaning nothing left to fulfill, then what about all those who have died for the cause of Christ since then? All those who are considered martyrs for the cause, the faith, are all their deaths simply in vain? I mean if all was fulfilled, what exactly was the purpose of them going out, being persecuted and laying down their lives for the cause of Christ?

Furthermore, what is the point of any of us preaching the Gospels to anyone? Why should any of us seek to expand the Kingdom of God if all has already been fulfilled and there is no further hope of Christ's return for all of us who came after 70 AD?

In fact, why do you even worry about whether or not we understand your theology if it really matters not, Christ has already returned, all has been fulfilled and there is nothing left for any of us? No blessed hope, assurance, or expectation of His return. No looking forward to the day that satan will be bound and cast into the pit. No looking forward to this new incorruptible heaven and earth where sin no longer abounds but which is the home of righteousness.

I mean if, all these things have come to pass already, if there is already the new heavens and the new earth where all is incorruptible and sin no longer abides, where death has no sting and victory over all evil has been accomplished, whereby we simply kneel at the feet of Christ in worship all the time, free from tears, free from pain, free from struggles, free from trials and tribulation, then does this truly not portray God to be some sort of cruel puppet master to have those of us, who came after 70 AD, after 1070 AD living here on this corruptible earth where sin does abide, where evil does still show its face and where we still have tears, pain, sufferings, trials and tribulations."

Would this all truly not go against the very character of God being loving, forgiving, full of grace and mercy and instead make Him out to be some cruel being watching us struggle or suffer?

http://www.city-data.com/forum/christianity/436516-scriptures-completely-blow-preterism-out-biblical-11.html

Holes in Hyper-Preterism

mari4him comments "If the prophecies of the book of Revelations have already come to pass, and if Jesus second coming has already occurred, would it not be that a couple of things would be evident in this day and age.

• 1st, the kingdom of God, both spiritual and physical would be fully manifested before us.
• 2nd, Satan would be bound and cast away, no longer free to seek the souls of man.
• 3rd, would we not be living in the resurrection fully, not just spiritually, which means, there is no marriage, no family connections as we know them.
• 4th, if we are living in the resurrection, why do we still experience sufferings, illnesses and death.

In other words, I do believe that through the death and resurrection of Christ we experience the spiritual resurrection here and now. Meaning that if I am in Christ, therefore it is no longer I who lives, but Christ who lives within me, the old passes away and all things are made new. But tells us that we will be resurrected as Christ, this is body and spirit, the full manifestation of this has yet to come in that while we have a spiritual ressurection, the physical ressurection has not occurred.

It is obvious in this day and age that Satan is not bound as he is still seeking to devour the souls of God's creation. It is obvious that in this day and age, we still live in an earth where family connections exist and marriages occur. It is obvious that in this day and age, we still live in a world where suffering, illness and death occur. Therefore, if we believe that ALL has already come to pass, where is the differences in the lives we live today, with those facts I just mentioned, still so evident in our lives. Would this imply that Christ second coming made no impact on our lives, in this world? Would it then claim God to be a liar?

Jesus spoke of both, the kingdom that was there present in that moment with His presence, and He also spoke of the kingdom that was to come, He stated the time of which no man knows the day, the hour but that when it occurs all would know. Scripture warns us that if we have to know of this coming through someone telling us, it has not occurred, for when it occurs all would see it, all would know.

2 Peter 3 tells us (and I'm paraphrasing a lot) of how scoffers will come asking where is this promise of His coming since our father's died but that God is not slow in keeping His promises in terms of what we understand slow to be. Rather He is patient with His children as it is His desire that not a one would perish. However, He is clear that He will come like a thief and that the old will be done away with and we will behold a new Heaven and a new Earth, and this shall be a home of righteousness.

I do understand (to an extent) the "confusion" because of the claims made with the terminology of "the time is near". However, God is not the author of confusion and it would be prudent for us to remember that scripture warns us against measuring God's timing by way of man's understanding of time. It tells us clearly that to the Lord one day could be as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day. So while it is stated the time is near, what is near to man's mind, or what man may understand to be near, may in fact be a day for the Lord yet a thousand years for man, two days days for the Lord, while appearing as two thousand years to man, and so on.

The essence is we are to be watchful for this 2nd coming of Christ. We are to be filled with expectation of it and be mindful in our efforts to be found spotless and without blemish. If we remove all this saying that it has already occured, which I do not believe it has, where then does that leave the children of God today if none of this blessed hope and expectation is of things yet to come.

My belief is that the book of Revelation is a book of prophecy, not of history. It is the blessed hope and promises for those who stand fast in their faith and watch for the Lord's return. To try to change that, is to not heed the warnings that was clearly given in 2 Timothy 2:15-18.

"Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. But shun profane and idle babbling, for they will increase to more ungodliness. And their message will spread like cancer. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort, who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some".

http://www.city-data.com/forum/christianity/436516-scriptures-completely-blow-preterism-out-biblical-9.html

Dead Raised From Hades Prior to AD70

Rusureofit comments on a Hyper-Preterist blog on the issue of Hymenaeus and Philetus. "If Paul in 1st Thess.4:13 is yet looking for the dead to be raised from Hades at some point in the future around AD 70 then how come in 1st Corinthians 15:16 He says: "For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either." Hadn't Christ been raised from Hades at that point yet? If so then the dead in Hades must have also been raised. Hence we have the witnesses to attest to that resurrection in Matthew 27:50-53; "50And when Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice, he gave up his spirit. ; 51At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook and the rocks split. 52The tombs broke open and the bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. 53They came out of the tombs, and after Jesus' resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many people."

If Jesus appeared after his resurrection to prove he had been raised from hades wouldn't the other saints that appeared to many be doing the same thing?

I have read that 1 Corinthians was written after 1 Thessalonians but still years before the temple was destroyed. If the dead were raised in AD 70 then how could Paul say "For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either." Isn't this past tense? Or did Paul change his mind from the time he wrote 1 Thessalonians until he wrote 1 Corinthians? Or is he talking about a different resurrection? This one has got me stumped......."

planetpreterist.com/news-5559.html#41155

Hyper-Preterist response to this question Parker "The better translation might be "if the dead are not to be raised, then Christ has not been raised" or "if the dead don't raise, then Christ has not been raised." The NT theology is CLEAR that Jesus was the first to rise out of Hades and that the rest of the dead were to get out of Hades much later (at AD 70)."

Is Hyper-Preterism a Cult?

John Church (1829) - All this was not fulfilled when he desolated Jerusalem

The National Preacher
By Dr. John H. Church (1829)

“Having thus spoken of his coming by death, and given warning to prepare for this momentous event, Christ was naturally led to foretell his coming to judge the world, and render to all according to their deeds. And thus he passed from the destruction of Jerusalem to the state of every man, either at death, or at the final judgment ; and spoke for the instruction and warning of men in all future time. But all this was not fulfilled when he desolated Jerusalem.”

“All men did not then die, or have their bodies changed ; nor were all men then judged and rewarded according to their works. The dead were not then raised from their graves ; nor were all nations gathered before the Judge. But few, comparatively, were collected ; and these were unbelieving Jews and Romans. A part of these were destroyed ; but without any visible process of their works being brought into judgment. The others were continued in a state of probation. The Christian church was not then gathered before the Judge ; but its members remained dispersed among the nations. The final separation was not then made between the wise and foolish virgins ; nor were the faithful servants rewarded, and the slothful cast into outer darkness, as Christ represents in the parables concerning them. Christ did not then visibly come in person, so that every eye could see him, attended by all the holy angels, and sitting on a throne of glory as his judgment-seat. He did not then, in an open and public manner, separate all nations one from another, and divide them into two classes, the righteous and the wicked, placing them in two distinct companies, on his right hand, and on his left ; and then say to the righteous, " Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world ;" and to the wicked, " Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels."

“These things neither did nor could take place, when, by the Roman armies, he cut off some thousands of obstinate Jews. His coming to gather all nations before him, and to judge and pronounce final sentence upon them, according as they have done good or evil, as described in connection with 'the text, is vastly different from his coming to inflict his wrath on a small part of his enemies, within the limits of Jerusalem. So that the prediction of hip coming to judge the world in righteousness has not yet been fulfilled.” (Page 39)

http://books.google.com/books?id=BCYPAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA39&dq=Destruction+coming+past+date:1800-1830&lr=&as_brr=0&ei=3rM1SeNykpDNBPKAscwJ#PPA39,M1

Daniel Buck (1856) The eye of hope has ever been directed to things beyond the present life

Our Lord's Great Prophecy, and Its Parallels Throughout the Bible
By Daniel Buck (1856)

"When it is remarked, that the prophecy is now finished, it not meant that there is nothing afterwards introduced which is of a prophetic character, for there are several instances to be noticed." "The wretched attempts to make it (PH: all prophecy) apply somehow to the period of the downfall of Jerusalem, are certainly too superficial, and too utterly destitute of any historical evidence, to deserve a formal reply. Let any one endeavor to fix upon some historic evidence of Christians being redeemed, as the figurative theory supposes, upon the downfall of the Jewish, nation ; let him satisfy himself as to what Christ meant by "these things beginning to come to pass," and thus indicating their redemption drawing nigh; — let him produce a single Scripture or historic proof that " the kingdom of God was nigh at hand," implying that the gospel kingdom had not been previously established let him refer to a single proof of any kind that the destruction of the Jewish nation had anything to do, either with the beginning, or the establishing of the gospel kingdom, and this portion of the Treatise shall be confessed to be a failure.”

The Bible has no where contradicted the declaration of Christ to his disciples, " In the world ye shall have tribulation ; " John xvi. 33. The whole spirit, as well as the letter, of the Scriptures shows that God's people are not to expect any " continuing city " in this world. Their eye of hope has ever been directed to things beyond the present life. There is no promise, not one, of a time of general rest to God's people, before the second coming of Christ at the last day.

The " redemption" for which they are encouraged to " lift up their heads," is something more than a mere temporary cessation or alleviation of their sufferings in this world. They are taught to look for their redemption from sufferings, and their final blessedness, in connection with their reception of "an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for us, who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation, ready to be revealed in the last time,- wherein we greatly rejoice, though now for a season (if need be) we are in heaviness through manifold temptations ; that the trial of our faith, being more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise, and honor, and glory, at the appearing of Jesus Christ" " Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you, at the revelation of Jesus Christ." 1 Pet. i. 4-7 and 13.*"

AMEN!!!!

http://books.google.com/books?id=h3hCAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA382&dq=%22some+historic+evidence+of+Christians+being+redeemed%22&lr=&ei=NGk1SdWuMYXAMsDsgMgE#PPA382,M1

Terry Benton: How Hyper-Preterism is LIKE CANCER

Terry Benton Debate with Don Preston says "His whole doctrine is built around a "consummation" theory of Jesus having to "come back out of the MHP" before His sacrifice can benefit us. Thus, you have seen what blindness comes with this AD 70 doctrine. It is a position that turns the first forty years after Jesus’ death upside-down. It turns the teaching of the New Testament on end and changes every verse it touches. Nothing is clear any more. There is a fitting description that would still apply to doctrines like this. It is like a CANCER. It consumes until it destroys every major doctrine of the New Testament.

2 Tim 2:17-18 "And their message will spread like CANCER . Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort, 18 who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some." NKJV

eschatology.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=568&Itemid=61